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View Full Version : SNOW PERFORMACE alcohal water injection has anybody tried?



scotty
02-20-2012, 07:51 PM
I have been told that you can run regular gas and still bump up the timing and the boost and not affect drivability and also increase gas mileage. FACT or FICTION?

baltimucho
02-21-2012, 10:03 AM
Fact. Water/Alcohol or Meth injection cools the air/fuel mixture allowing for more timing and boost before detonation. This is why a more efficient intercooler also increases the capability for more timing and boost as well.

NotBud
02-21-2012, 04:18 PM
Fact. Water/Alcohol or Meth injection cools the air/fuel mixture allowing for more timing and boost before detonation. This is why a more efficient intercooler also increases the capability for more timing and boost as well. That's only a fact in an ideal world.

First of you would need to GUARANTEE equal distribution to each cylinder - which is a major task with a variable-pressure intake system not to mention needing individual port injectors for the water/alcohol mix (or pure water).

Note that water is extremely corrosive so any metal other than stainless or copper is gonna cause problems. And methanol has it's own compatibility issues (like no rubber, aluminum, cad-plated parts, etc.)

Lastly - without some other (non-EEC) engine management system that's smart enough to re-map ignition - when you run out of water/alcohol - the car immediately becomes undriveable. Plan on at least a five gallon reservoir. In my experience, one gallon won't last an hour.

Now if you solve the above issues first, then it can be a benefit. Otherwise it's just another way to *quickly* destroy your engine.

On another note there is also no benefit to using a lower octane fuel just because you're implemented a water/alcohol injection system if you're going to increase timing. That's kinda moving a step in each direction - you end at the same spot (except you usually end up a step or two backwards).

IMHO, If you want to experiment with water injection and tuning, start with a low-performance NA engine that's very cheap to replace and that can be OBD2 tuned. Save the turbo'd engines until you have a few years experience.

BTW - the water/alcohol will only provide usable cooling the air if the water/alcohol evaporates BEFORE the intake valve closes which in entirely different from how a charge cooler functions.

The water/alcohol functions as a charge dilutent after the valve closes and slows down the burning of the air/HC mixture by separating the HC molecules (adds distance at the molecular level). This is *similar* to what a higher octane fuel does, burns slower, so it is more detonation resistant (provided the water/alcohol mixture has an even cylinder distribution).

In some rare cases there can be a benefit to the slower, longer gas expansion from steam, but that usually requires fairly low RPM operation and very late exhaust valve openings - whcih is contraindicated for most turbo engines.

Lastly note that methanol is EXTREMELY poisonous. So educate yourself on proper handling before getting close to it. Gloves, face mask & respirator are a minimum.

baltimucho
02-21-2012, 04:36 PM
Agreed. I was speaking to the theory and not the execution. I have seen it improve efficiency when done correctly.

scotty
02-27-2012, 02:13 PM
I mention it as I saw it featured on "Horsepower TV" and they ran it on a new camaro with a turbo kit installed with significant gains in hp and fuel mileage. The snow performance turbo kit was 283$ and came with a 300psi pump and used a signal from the MAF to kick in only under boost/load which was adjustable. I haven't changed my boost levels from factory yet, just been missing that 92 octane we used enjoy at the pump.

blueboss
03-21-2012, 06:28 AM
Devil's advocate.....you "tune" your car to run with meth injection. How much will the repair to your engine cost when you forget to fill/run out of the snake oil that's keeping your engine from turning itself inside out? I saw the same Horsepower episode. Courtney Hansen.....stretchy pants......mmmmm.....anyway.

NotBud
03-21-2012, 01:25 PM
Courtney Hansen:

http://www.courtneyhansen.com/videogallery

4themasses
03-23-2012, 06:10 AM
Whowahhhh!!!! Something tells me that Jessie James had a rough time in that video shoot!

SVSTEVE
06-29-2012, 09:57 AM
I have been researching the AEM kit and was highly considering it after I get my FMIC, and MS with EDIS4 setup finished. This has been a very interesting read, and I hope someone tries it out soon. If not I'll be a ginny pig and keep it slow and easy.